The Greek Poison

"The danger of being open to 'new' ideas, is that everyone wants the new,the flashy,(even if you are superior)and will do anything to get it.Hence there must be responsibility! "Konoe Fumimaru

former Japanese Prime minister

Back by not-popular demand!!!.....Gryphon!!!!!!(cricket)(cricket)

Ahem

Well here we are again.(master of the obvious here!)(This article is borrowed heavily from a wise friend:)

I would like to continue on the previous topic,The Fall of The Roman Republic.Now on my previous post I did the Punic War Theory,now I wish to look at a different theory(It may be right or wrong,or work in conjunction with the Punic War Theory.I do not claim mastery of historical fact.)the Greek Dominance Theory.The Greek theory is simple yet complex.When the Romans conquered the Greeks they encountered a new problem.How does one conquer a advanced culture? There are two ways to handle a situation like this, annihilate(something the Romans would later do quite frequently.)or assimilate.The Romans looked at the Greeks culture and learning enviously,so they attempted the latter.In history no two cultures are ever even in one country;the Romans were no different.The culture of hard work,loyalty,and love of independence, was not rooted in anything strong enough to survive the Greek's refined culture.One might wonder,"What difference does It make?"Well a republic is a manifestation of the public's will,and a will is just their culture in

action.Therefore the greatest danger to a republic is the dominance of alien culture.Anyway back on track!The culture invasion began slowly.First,families began hiring learned tutors to teach their children,unfortunately these 'learned' men were Greek philosophes,foreigners;It also broke the family nucleus. Second,Greek ambition infiltrated the community unit,men began to strive to dominate.Third, philosophy replaced tradition, and it ruined the religious unity of Rome.Finally,The Greek language became the dominant language,the 'smart' language,even Ceasers courts used it later.Which only leads to trouble!(e.g-Austria-Hungary,America and Illegal immigrants,Holy Roman Empire.)

Well that is it my friends!As always feel free to disagree!Constructive criticism welcomed!

Mason Rules!

Punic War.The Deathstroke Of The Republic?

" fait accompli

lit. A accomplished fact that is so thoroughly finished that it is extremely unlikely to be reversed" French-English dictionary

Ahem

As a amateur history scholar I often like to just think,"hmmmm! I wonder what would have happened if he died,or if this happened instead?" With most things there is a point in which the history of a nation or war is hinged on a single time, a point of no return, a fait accompli.

The Roman Republic, did it have a point of no return?A time when, if cooler heads had prevailed, the Romans would not have fallen to an the temptation of Imperial authority?

I personally do not know 100%, But I have assembled some theories from mentors,books,

and good friends.

Theory One-----Punic War Theory

Rome was just beginning on it's path to becoming the mistress of the Mediterranean, when it's interests collided with the goals of an older empire:Carthage.The wars stemmed from years of commercial aggravation,economic competition,and territorial ambition!It took three wars,but at the end Carthage was destroyed, and (according to some) the Republic was sowed with a slow disease.

Three points make up the bulk of this theory.#1-Excess of slaves:In any war,back then,

the victors took slaves.But the Romans took many, many Slaves!As was noted in my previous post, The Roman's power came from a loyal,tough,worker-farmer class.The enlisted farmers came back to find their position taken by the slaves and the noble-run estates.disenfranchised farmers joined the mob of discontented unemployed who would follow any charismatic person.

#2-increase of nobility:Now not only did the people need to contend with cheap forced labor,senatorial nobility, But now also they had to deal with a new genre of nobility,The landed nobility.these were individuals who had profited from the wars and were ready to enjoy their hefty profits.(usually at the expense of the people.)

#3-loss of initiative:The plebeians had,during the war, left most of the prosecution of the war to the senate patricians.But with the passing of time the plebeians surrendered more and more powers,to these successful experienced war leaders.with disastrous

consequences later.

Well that is one theory maybe right, maybe wrong, we will never know.Please feel free to debate with me.

NEXT:The Greek conquering,did it spell doom for the republic!?Stay Tuned!!!

My Apologies Gryphon !!

Dad got Civ 5 yesterday and I quit before I realized that you where posting.

So to make it up to you I will do my best to continue your  thread .

Ahem.

I’m glad you pointed out some of the differences definitely not the least of them in religion, but I will point  out that the Romans were vary  moral  and religious at least originally. This is a bit of a stretch but I would vencher that  one religious system is as good as the next ,so following that logic Christianity the religion is probably only partially better than the Roman religion. Of cores this is not Christianity as it should be I ‘am referring to the man made system not the Faith( just wanted to be clear on thatJ) I think there are certain superiorities but it is sort of ironic that a some historians  believe  that modern Catholicism is based on the Roman religion. But back to the main subject. Gryphon I’d be glad to do a segment on the western expansion and I think it would accented nicely buy the Punic wars but I think that it would be closer to the Roman expansion in to northern Gaul and southern Germania .

Well Let us begin.

I’m sorely tempted to start with something completely different . Like all the resends I think Obama’s election was good for America. But I will resist the desire for now.  And Instead will open the table with comparing the Roman republic with the USA’s current government . I start with comparing how both counters started a republic and the decade in to a democracy  one wonders if we to will collapse it to anarchy  and be saved by emperors (think they’re excepting job applications for that?) anyway both originally started as multiple entities and then merged in to one and then expanded in to barbarian  territories say How about some input at this point.J  “To be continued”

Not bad .I really expected you’d stretch the truth a little more when it came to your looks you honesty is an inspiration to us allJ. But seriously it is suitably vague  and menacing spiced with a hint of mystery and grandeur. although I’ll admit it will probably take awhile be for I can spell it without looking.

In a more mundane topic I think I will start a page for “chitchat” and save the main one for discussions and info.

(ps. I think a better name for “The Rat” would be( Polyphemus) J.