Merry Christmas!Folks!

Have yourselves a merry little Christmas!To all the Metis regulars have happy holidays and a very merry Christmas.

The some of the basics of sword fighing

The order of (put cool name here)’s lectures on becoming the fight.

By (put impressive title here ) Rennuke.

Although this is done predominantly with western swords I think most of the  information given here could be used with eastern swords.

I ‘am going to start with the basic basics 

 Ahem…..

 #1

This is a sword.:)

Now before we discus how to use it,lets talk about grip.This may seem trivial and if you do it right it is. But if you do it wrong then it becomes a big problem. Notice in the picture below the swordsman has his thumb over his pointer. This feels natural to some people but it leaves your grip weak in one direction. You might say that you plan on fighting two handed which would cancel this out, but that gives you a disadvantage that we will talk about later. #2

 

 #3

This is the proper way to gab the hilt (slightly exaggerated for the camera) I don’t know why but where as with the first grip you can literally have the sword knocked out of your hand, with the second (short of a trick) you will probably have your guard hit aside before you lose you grip. Now we have the question WHERE do you grab it.#4

 The closer to the pummel you grab it the more reach and leverage you have but you scarifies maneuverability unless you are strong enough then you don’t lose that but you sword is still five inches longer then the guy In #3 sometimes that’s a good thing and sometimes that is a bad thing.

#5

Short of actually grabbing the blade( which some people have been known to do, albeit as part of a two handed hold)  this hold gives you the most maneuverability of any one handed hold. (observe that this hold is not possible with a katana. Which exchanges the flexibility and extra weapons the cross guard provides in exchange for more protection, though it does get some of that back with its longer handle.)

#6 

                                                                                 

#7

Now in this next picture I have tried to illustrate that disadvantage I mentioned earlier. When using both hands your left-hand shortens your right hands reach and vice versa so if your opponent is using one hand he can force you to move your hole  body to block his attack and one hand holds can move and twist in ways that both hands just can’t.

#8

Some people have tried to remedy this with holds like this one.

#9

This gives you the strength of two handed holds and the some of the maneuverability of single hand holds. But at the same time shifts your effective area.  In picture #10 the black line represents the effective operational section of holds like the one in #10 and the blue one shows it for the one used in #9.

#10

On a side note left handed swordsmen have an advantage on right handed ones because there are so many more right handed people then there are left handed so both right and left handed swordsmen are used to fighting the right hand but left hander’s  moves are the opposite. Now let’s look  at some basic moves.

Let’s start with some of the guard positions.

#11

#11 shows what is called the plow guard this is a balanced good all around stance. Its central location allows you to have lower response time and boasts strong blocks which is useful especially if you are fighting an opponent that you are unsure of  while at the same time offers a good position for thrusts. This stance is your tried and true, your rock strategists, good for new swordsmen and more experience ones in difficult situations. It’s weakness, if there is one, is that it doesn’t lend itself well to anything fancy or psychological  tricks, at least not my type.

#12

This Is the floor guard from knights and men-at-arms to the  samurai this guard has seen a lot of use.  An excellent one for fights with opponents who like to go for the legs or are just shorter than you. It also puts you in a good thrusting position  but is weak against head blows and  if your opponent is very close to you. Quite hard to use successfully when running .

#13 

The high guard as #13 is called. Almost the mirror  of the floor guard its characteristics  include: a good upper body defense, very strong downward cuts, and is fairly easy to use while running.  It also permits some of the more complicated moves that the guards I’ve already mentioned don’t. As far as weaknesses go  it’s lower body defense is mediocre and it is fairly hard to thrust from. (Good position to execute a surprise attack with you pommel.)

#14

This is the roof guard, it sacrifices the powerful downward blows of the high guard for better lower defense and gives you a good thrusting or draw cut position but makes it hard to do a standard cut.

#15

I’m still trying to figure out whether this is called the fool’s guard because when you use it you are trying to get your adversary to think you’re a fool ,you are trying to make him a fool or because you are a fool. The idea is that it makes you look like you’re leaving yourself wide open for attack. The problem is, you are. Theoretically it gives you a very strong swing so you can cover ground  very quickly, and knock you enemies blow aside hopefully leaving him unguarded and or over extended. Of course if his is fast, or strong, or smart enough then he just kills you. And so much for your fancy maneuver.

Well, it sounds good on paper ,and learning moves, guards and their uses is beneficial,even necessary ,but there is no substitute (in my humble opinion) for getting out there and having the daylights beaten out of you. Of knowing the thrill of victory and the taste of defeat. Feeling the fear of KNOWING that unless you do something different NOW you are going to loose…..again. Knowing the power and responsibility of having a well balanced blade in your hands…. and knowing how to use it.

But remember something ,the sword is just a supplement to your body’s arsenal and your body is just the medium through which your mind and heart Fight. 

To catch us up

I’m sorry but my article on eastern swords suffered the fate of “experiencing  technical difficulties” Indefinitely If any of you would like to read it I would be glad to get you a hard copy.

In other news I was thinking that since we have a new interest in sword fitting Gryphon could do something on the art of drawing and I could do one on some practical sword fighting.

Input please.

Who do you think is the greatest world leader right now ?

Is it just me or dose this remind you of Gryphon (as the Brain and pinky as anyone who does not understand the TRUE risen to study History!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yjs7NL-YnfU

Greatest World Leaders In History

Here is a question.Who was the greatest leader in history?I mean there is probably many different
ways to look at all of them,and lots of good leaders but who do you think was the Best.

In my opinion the greatest leader was Genghis Khan. The man forged a nomadic people into one of the greatest armies of the world,creating one of (if not the) largest Empires in history!While Genghis was in command the Empire was organized, and expanding.He even wrote out the Great Yasa.(disputably the only true Meritocracy in the World)

comments anyone?
P.S:feel free to disagree

Bushido vs Chivalry

Readers,Scholars,and Friends, I would invite you to contribute to this noble post's goal,to put to rest through methodical argument these controversies!

Question #1:Which was "better", Japanese Bushido or Christendom's Chivalry?
Question #2:Which was more closely adhered to?
Question #3:Was one more sincere than the other?

Comments?

Sword No.1

Well I guess patience is a virtue that I need to improve on, I was going to wait and write this after I did some more research but I’m getting to impatient so here it goes.

Ahem…

I must start by expressing my opinion that Gyphon is wrong and that oriental sword fighting can’t be summed up in Japanese swordsmanship I think that it would be more accurate to compare  swordsmanship to food. Allow  me to explain. Think about it . EVERY culture and people and clan and tribe have some similarities . They ALL eat food. But that is at a basic basic level . Consider the enormous differences between say modern western and eastern food. But what a minute, we don’t eat what the French eat nether do the Germens or the Poles  or the English. But even in the U.S. there is gigantic differences in our diet there is Midwestern, Southern,  New England and even Indian if you will. But look at New England there is New Hampshire and Massachusetts clam chowder that even use most of the same ingredients and are nothing like each other.  Any great chef could discover the best Massachusetts clam chowder the world has ever known and make it his own. Chowder connoisseurs would folk to him, and after his death all his “disciples” would start their own schools  of the “Real chef so-and-so’s  chowder and  there would be endless variations JUST ON his CHOWDER!! Now, I said all that to say this. Swordsmanship is just like that. Almost every people that I can think of have had some version of the sword from the Aztecs and Zulu to the China and the Philippines and like with the food  each group used what they had and what they came up with developed from their culture  and environment. Then the swords and the swordsmanship evolved based on who and what their enemies were and of corers what their enemies fought and protected themselves with. So every time you have a division of some kind or a great sword master  you could get a new branch of the sword family, even if the variation was very slight, like chef so-and-so’s chowder it would have the potential to have INFINITE variations just on that particular sword. That’s in theory,  but in reality the human body can only move in so many ways and only so many of THEM are practical and although you would get the occasional  master or people who live the sword, most people don’t what to  bet there life on an experiment so you wouldn’t actually get exponential differences, but you would get continual change, with some swords becoming useless as a main battle weapon and eventually cease to be used and would fade it to history. The result of the process I have just described is the endless variety of swords and the mindboggling ways of using each type of them. So let’s talk about some specific  specimens. In my world view civilization started in the fertile crescent,so I assume that the sword began there as well.

To be continued….

Something of interest

We shall not flag nor fail. We shall go on to the end. We shall fight in France and on the seas and oceans; we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air. We shall defend our island whatever the cost may be; we shall fight on beaches, landing grounds, in fields, in streets and on the hills. We shall never surrender and even if, which I do not for the moment believe, this island or a large part of it were subjugated and starving, then our empire beyond the seas, armed and guarded by the British Fleet, will carry on the struggle until in God's good time the New World with all its power and might, sets forth to the liberation and rescue of the Old. I read this

well doing some research and fond it to be encouraging in a day that the world seems to be going to Hell in a hand basket it is impotent to remember that what we face is nothing compared to what people in the paced have had to go through. And that like them WE should be brave enough  to say We shall not flag nor fail. We shall go on to the end… we shall fight on beaches, landing grounds, in fields, in streets and on the hills. We shall never surrender…

Swordsmanship

I have been wanting to do a post on swords for a long time now,but I just have never gotten up the energy to do it until now.I would like to first focus on the two schools of thought on swordsmanship,
Western and Eastern swordsmanship.
First Eastern swordsmanship.Eastern Swordsmanship can be summed up as Japanese swordsmanship.Swordsmanship(Kendo) changed almost nill in Japan from the time of Nobunaga,Hideyoshi,and Tokugawa,because,unlike the Europeans who had to face new challenges and multitudes of invaders the Japanese did not.They only faced enemies with the same type of sword and tactics.So instead of being forced to have to adapt, they perfected there own swords,and instead of innovating new ways for warfare,the Sword(used exclusively by the prestigious,honored, Samurai) became a symbol of power,and it's study a art form.Kendo(Way of the Sword)became a cult of itself teaching that to use ones sword it was a spiritual act,as much as a physical one,"One must achieve a state of no mind, were one's body and mind mesh in one purpose!'The next cut!'"quote Miyamoto Musashi

I will continue this thread,but if my esteemed college, and wizened scholar,Rennuk,would do one on Western Swordsmanship I would be much obliged.I admit to lack of study in that area.

I was just wondering what you guys thought of Paladeno?

Points of Prophecy.

Thanks to:My best Mentor who gave most of this information,and to Daniel who had this gift for prophecy

Permissions:This article was published with the permission of NamelessCybranPublishing,Court Jester Inc.,Gryphon Typing And Publishing,World Domination Society, Plagiarized Spicer-isms,
and the Fidelis Grand Arch-Master Strategos(Ph.d) of the Order of Shadow domination,(His Excellency Gryphon),With the approval of the Fidelis Grand Arch-Templar of Inner-Global Workings(His Magnanimity Rennuk)AND....with contributions from viewers like you...thank-you!

Now I am going to ask you to ignore the elephant(or statue) in the room for just one second.Now I take you back say 3500 years,(give or take.)to a time when Babylon was at it's height!The king had just finished with his conquering spree through the holy land.He had this brilliant idea that he could more easily govern his conquered people if he had those peoples people as advisers.So he took 4 brilliant,comely, and quick witted(starting to sound like the hunter here:)children to train for his advisers.They(the children) followed God, and by doing so were smarter and by far more honest, than any other councilors.One night the King had a dream, and to make a long story short only Daniel could make any sense out of it.(Now we get to the Statue in the room.)Daniel told the king that the statue symbolized 4 consecutive World-Empires that would follow his.I, after talking to a mentor well versed in the Bible, have written a article explaining this statue.
Golden Head:The Golden Head symbolized the Babylonian Empire.The reason for the color was that,the Babylonians instituted many of the government practices that were practiced in every government afterwords:Absolute Kingship,Bureaucracy, State Religion,State-run Schools,and Organized Taxes.(CURSE YOU!!!)Basically the Babylonians have provided the mold for every World Empire after it.Also gold does not shatter or break, symbolizes how the Babylonians did not break until they were completely conquered
Silver Arms:The Silver Arms symbolize the Medo-Persian Empire.The arms are a picture of the struggle between Medes and Persian for dominance,Cyrus the Great is the upper stronger arm,while Darius the Mede is the lower weaker arm,symbolizing Persian supremacy(Who in the world has ever heard of the Medes anyway?)Also it might be a coincidence,but the Persians had Twelve rulers and the statue had twelve ribs,maybe insignificant but interesting none the less.
Bronze Stomach And Thighs:The Stomach and Thighs are a bit more difficult.all I can find on them is that they are all one part,Alexander's empire had only one ruler before it was destroyed.
Legs of Iron:The Legs of Iron represents Rome.Iron is the strongest metal,Rome is still said to have the strongest military in history.But the interesting part is the subtle detail in the statue:There are two legs which represents the split of the East and West empire,the feet are remnants of Rome combined with weak "clay" making countries that are mini Romes.The Clay symbolizes the barbarian invaders mixing with Roman populace.The Ten toes on the feet are the ten countries that formed in Europe from the melding of Roman law and Barbarian law.(France,Germany,England,Spain,Portugal,Switzerland,Italy,Greece,and Byzantium.

Well that is it if you disagree or want to comment please feel free.I hope you enjoy it as much as I did,and If it is okay with you rennuk i will post another like it here.

Gryphon

Rennuke’s interpretation of the Fall of the Spanish Empire

Thanks: To everyone who commented on the original post and helped correct my mistakes.

Apologies: To anyone who read the original post for: bad grammar , horrendous English, typos, and incorrect history

Permissions: This article was published with the permission of the Grand vicar of the order of the Hospitallers brethren counsel of the protection of forbidden history and with the approval of the co supreme commander Jordan of the knights of historical preservation.  And the advice of the co champion of AOE2.,SM.FA., and SC2. Devotions of the RTS. Elite society.    

The loss of the Spanish armada was not what killed the Spanish empire I believe that it was God and nothing less.
As I understand it happened this way.
Ahem… when King Philip (the number escapes me at the moment) came to the throne of Spain he commanded an exploding economy that was enriched by a seemingly endless avalanche of wealth from enormous and mostly unchallenged American colonies, also large portions of Europe answered to him, the single largest religion in the world was right in his pocket, on land his armies were considered literally physically invincible. The people of Spain were happy, her coffers seemingly endless and she was the undisputed mistress of the seas. All the other nations of Europe were kowtowing and her only rival by any stretch of the imagination was England, and in the eyes of Europe it was like a emperies and a peasant girl. But this peasant was one of rare beauty founded in passionate independents of the early Britons tempered by Roman discipline bolstered up and sustained with Saxon law and vigor and finely crowned with Norman nobility and ambition. But in of herself England had no hope of toppling the” Queen of the World” Then comes the part where the legends get made. In a little out of the way Spanish province most people had never even heard of named the Netherlands. Now the Dutch were fine with their Spanish rulers but they had a problem. Lots of them were protestants so after Philip was crowned the inquisition told him that the Catholic Church would really appreciate it if he got rid of them and he said a….why not, turning the inquisition on them. The Dutch were horrified as they watched the atrocities poured on their neighbors just because the Pope didn’t like them. They had thought that there king would protect them but he was the one that gave the order. They tried appealing, enduring, flight, and finely when all else failed they took up arms to defend themselves. During this time they had been crying out to God to deliver them and He answered, he gave them a deliverer in the most unlikely place. Agenst all odds their own Prince decided to back them. You may have heard of him he is called the Prince of Orange. And under his leadership the protestants and the Catholics of Holland joined forces and beat off the inquisition. Philip was furious how dare they deify his royal order! So he ordered an army to finish the job. In fact he ordered the extermination of the Dutch as a people, thus fallowed one of the bloodiest wars in history. With the Spanish massacring thousands of Dutch and the Dutch fighting a haphazard war of desperately defending their cites attacking foraging parties and finely distorting the dike network and returning their land to the sea. On a side note this was one of the strangest wars I’ve ever heard of. From the besiegers being besieged to fleets freezing solid and being besieged by an army to entire battles with both sides on ice skates. It was the grave of the Spanish armies reputation Philip pored men and recourses in to it. But to no avail. Corruption helped some but I think that nothing short of the mighty hand of God could have saved them from their immanent doom. But by this time some other problems were forming. England was watching this and as quietly as possible helping the Dutch. Also a surprising number of English speaking pirates had appeared in the Caribbean, and that avalanche of Gold from America had caused some of its own problems the price of gold went through the floor, and just kept going. So the amount of gold the government had to spend to buy any given thing went up and up and up but thanks to those pirates the amount the government was getting went down. Then the English ,I mean the pirates started to win. The Spanish started calling the English sailors sea dogs  in fact it got so bad that entire ships surrendered to single boat loads of English. But this was strictly confined to the Caribbean. It was during this time that Francis Drake and his Golden Hide looted an attire Spanish fleet without a shot being fired. Also aided by England and other sympathetic nations of Europe the Dutch began to have some successes and even started a small fleet called the Zeeland pirates. Now Philip was no fool he saw the way the wind set. He was also discovering that the protestants that he was knocking off comprised most of his middle class artisans some of which were fleeing to England and helping their goring economy that was already being boosted by the Gold from captured treasure fleets. And he knew that if Spain was to win England was going to haft to go. So he needed a bigger fleet than the one that he had but instead of having one built he subsidized civilian ship building, on condition that they were built meeting military standards then when enough ship where built he would confiscated them. This temporarily boosted his flagging financial system and gave him a large fleet for haft of what it should have cost him. Then after he squashed the fledgling British navy and landed his armies he could then return the ships to their former owners and he would end up with the England bagging him for mercy. A nice merchant marine. And without England the Netherlands would fall and those annoying pirates would go home and the gold would flow. It seemed to good to be true,  It was. Now before Spain went to war they wanted to get rid of Drake so Philip sent an ambassador to not so gently ask queen Elizabeth to execute the pirate and to everyone’s surprise she agreed after all he was a pirate. England was shocked how could she!?! And then she decided to witness it herself!!??!! But on the day a pointed as he knelt she took the executioners sword and used it to make him a knight. The condemned pirate left as Sir. Francis Drake and commander of the Britons Plymouth fleet. Philip’s response was simple, he declared war. He also formed the Spanish Armada and stated gathering an army that would crush Briton (after all to worked so well last time). England could see the Spanish navy and army was preparing for an invasion and started making preparations but political pressure agenst Drake clogged the naval arrangements. Infract English admirals paid out of their pockets just to keep the sailors from staving. Drake could see the storm gathering and bagged the Queen for more funds but again politicians blocked anything much from happing. In desperation Drake tried to buy more time for England by attacking the Spanish naval economy  in one valiant attempt he fought his way to and destroyed the Armada’s water barrel supply this does not see so important but keep in mind that a watertight  wooden barrel takes between 6 and 9 months to make and the Armada needed thousands . If it had been almost anywhere else in the world this would have delayed them for months but this was the English channel so the Armada sailed anyway and just stop off along the cost for fresh water to refill their leaky water barrels and then off to England  they went. About this time the politicians that were giving such a hard time realized that if the Spanish were successful they wouldn’t be there to annoy Sir. Drake any more so in less time than it takes to say it… The navy had all the funding they needed ,well almost, but it was almost  too late to do anything  with it. With roughly 130 ships the Armada was on them. The first few engagements  were light but they  showed Drake that his small English ships could not face the Spanish giants toe to toe so he tried some complex maneuvers to maximize his fleets  maneuverability , fire ships, and a few other things. he took a few loses and gave a few but there was no real advantage from either side. But then the” weather” came to his rescue. Severely damaging the Armada. The Spanish feet gathered and decided to sail home for repairs. But the English Plymouth fleet was between them and Spain. So when the front door is locked go in the back way. They tried to sail all the way around Scotland and come back between Wales and Ireland. The bad weather fallowed them and ships were wrecked all along the coast only about 50% of the ships and less than that of the sailors made it home.  Spain was the laughing stock of Europe if a little rag tag bunch of Dutch merchants or a few little haft starved English ships could beat them why can’t we? The Spanish armed forces were in shambles, the economy was folding  ,and the Pope had found  a new favorite, Francs. The Spanish said  that the devil did it, and the English attributed it to God.

 Whatever  the cause. The after effects of the collapse  were enormous  The Dutch won their independents and became a power in their own rite. The power vacuum created on the main land was filled by the French, and on the sea the rising star of England began to shine as never before, both would expand their holdings  in the new world. Spain never completely recovered, new armies were trained fleets were rebuilt , reputation was restored  and the economy recovered , to some extent. But now she was a force to be reckoned with, not force itself,  she was a sea power, not the sea power. She would again be a star in the European sky but never again would she blot out every other star with her own brilliants. And the other two stars England and France? They are going to go to war and in the blood of their wars a new star would be born. And that star would shine like no star before it. But Europe was changed forever. The emperies had fallen and her crown placed on the head of the peasant girl only she was no longer  a peasant she had become a Queen.

                                                                                                                                                   Rennuke  Athrawes

Dictators Dasteredly Demises

I have noticed several things about Dictators over my studies.But my favorite thing is all the wonderful ways they meet their demises.I have compiled a list of my top-eight, all time favorites!
#8-Suicide:Adolf Hitler,One of the most evil men of all time!Who caused a war that killed more people than ever before and decimated minorities through the hellish holocaust!On the eve of his crushing defeat,the scum bag killed himself in a bunker under Berlin like the pathetic, coward he was!This one leaves a sense of un-satisfaction in me,I mean sure he took his own life(the ultimate action of defeat),but we should have been able to put him through a trial or give him some of his own medicine before he died!
To Be Continued!

The Greek Poison

"The danger of being open to 'new' ideas, is that everyone wants the new,the flashy,(even if you are superior)and will do anything to get it.Hence there must be responsibility! "Konoe Fumimaru

former Japanese Prime minister

Back by not-popular demand!!!.....Gryphon!!!!!!(cricket)(cricket)

Ahem

Well here we are again.(master of the obvious here!)(This article is borrowed heavily from a wise friend:)

I would like to continue on the previous topic,The Fall of The Roman Republic.Now on my previous post I did the Punic War Theory,now I wish to look at a different theory(It may be right or wrong,or work in conjunction with the Punic War Theory.I do not claim mastery of historical fact.)the Greek Dominance Theory.The Greek theory is simple yet complex.When the Romans conquered the Greeks they encountered a new problem.How does one conquer a advanced culture? There are two ways to handle a situation like this, annihilate(something the Romans would later do quite frequently.)or assimilate.The Romans looked at the Greeks culture and learning enviously,so they attempted the latter.In history no two cultures are ever even in one country;the Romans were no different.The culture of hard work,loyalty,and love of independence, was not rooted in anything strong enough to survive the Greek's refined culture.One might wonder,"What difference does It make?"Well a republic is a manifestation of the public's will,and a will is just their culture in

action.Therefore the greatest danger to a republic is the dominance of alien culture.Anyway back on track!The culture invasion began slowly.First,families began hiring learned tutors to teach their children,unfortunately these 'learned' men were Greek philosophes,foreigners;It also broke the family nucleus. Second,Greek ambition infiltrated the community unit,men began to strive to dominate.Third, philosophy replaced tradition, and it ruined the religious unity of Rome.Finally,The Greek language became the dominant language,the 'smart' language,even Ceasers courts used it later.Which only leads to trouble!(e.g-Austria-Hungary,America and Illegal immigrants,Holy Roman Empire.)

Well that is it my friends!As always feel free to disagree!Constructive criticism welcomed!

Mason Rules!

Punic War.The Deathstroke Of The Republic?

" fait accompli

lit. A accomplished fact that is so thoroughly finished that it is extremely unlikely to be reversed" French-English dictionary

Ahem

As a amateur history scholar I often like to just think,"hmmmm! I wonder what would have happened if he died,or if this happened instead?" With most things there is a point in which the history of a nation or war is hinged on a single time, a point of no return, a fait accompli.

The Roman Republic, did it have a point of no return?A time when, if cooler heads had prevailed, the Romans would not have fallen to an the temptation of Imperial authority?

I personally do not know 100%, But I have assembled some theories from mentors,books,

and good friends.

Theory One-----Punic War Theory

Rome was just beginning on it's path to becoming the mistress of the Mediterranean, when it's interests collided with the goals of an older empire:Carthage.The wars stemmed from years of commercial aggravation,economic competition,and territorial ambition!It took three wars,but at the end Carthage was destroyed, and (according to some) the Republic was sowed with a slow disease.

Three points make up the bulk of this theory.#1-Excess of slaves:In any war,back then,

the victors took slaves.But the Romans took many, many Slaves!As was noted in my previous post, The Roman's power came from a loyal,tough,worker-farmer class.The enlisted farmers came back to find their position taken by the slaves and the noble-run estates.disenfranchised farmers joined the mob of discontented unemployed who would follow any charismatic person.

#2-increase of nobility:Now not only did the people need to contend with cheap forced labor,senatorial nobility, But now also they had to deal with a new genre of nobility,The landed nobility.these were individuals who had profited from the wars and were ready to enjoy their hefty profits.(usually at the expense of the people.)

#3-loss of initiative:The plebeians had,during the war, left most of the prosecution of the war to the senate patricians.But with the passing of time the plebeians surrendered more and more powers,to these successful experienced war leaders.with disastrous

consequences later.

Well that is one theory maybe right, maybe wrong, we will never know.Please feel free to debate with me.

NEXT:The Greek conquering,did it spell doom for the republic!?Stay Tuned!!!

My Apologies Gryphon !!

Dad got Civ 5 yesterday and I quit before I realized that you where posting.

So to make it up to you I will do my best to continue your  thread .

Ahem.

I’m glad you pointed out some of the differences definitely not the least of them in religion, but I will point  out that the Romans were vary  moral  and religious at least originally. This is a bit of a stretch but I would vencher that  one religious system is as good as the next ,so following that logic Christianity the religion is probably only partially better than the Roman religion. Of cores this is not Christianity as it should be I ‘am referring to the man made system not the Faith( just wanted to be clear on thatJ) I think there are certain superiorities but it is sort of ironic that a some historians  believe  that modern Catholicism is based on the Roman religion. But back to the main subject. Gryphon I’d be glad to do a segment on the western expansion and I think it would accented nicely buy the Punic wars but I think that it would be closer to the Roman expansion in to northern Gaul and southern Germania .

Well Let us begin.

I’m sorely tempted to start with something completely different . Like all the resends I think Obama’s election was good for America. But I will resist the desire for now.  And Instead will open the table with comparing the Roman republic with the USA’s current government . I start with comparing how both counters started a republic and the decade in to a democracy  one wonders if we to will collapse it to anarchy  and be saved by emperors (think they’re excepting job applications for that?) anyway both originally started as multiple entities and then merged in to one and then expanded in to barbarian  territories say How about some input at this point.J  “To be continued”

Not bad .I really expected you’d stretch the truth a little more when it came to your looks you honesty is an inspiration to us allJ. But seriously it is suitably vague  and menacing spiced with a hint of mystery and grandeur. although I’ll admit it will probably take awhile be for I can spell it without looking.

In a more mundane topic I think I will start a page for “chitchat” and save the main one for discussions and info.

(ps. I think a better name for “The Rat” would be( Polyphemus) J.